Siril vs dss Few months later I upgraded my rig to AVX and 294MC PRO and problems dissapeared. Siril has been great for the initial stretch, background extraction, and color calibration, but it's extremely particular in a lot of ways that make the pre-processing a headache. What are the major changes in this version since last stable version, 1. 6 exist, and it seems to support D810A better than 3. Siril (Greyish) - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Anyone have any thoughts on why Im getting such different results when stacking in DSS vs. (Release notes) Linux AppImage Linux Flatpak Linux Windows 64-bit Windows Portable Windows. My purpose was primarily to find the fastest stacker that did a good job because I shoot a lot of short subs. then Test: compared stacking DSS, SIRIL and PI - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: 130SLT, 294MC PRO, 385MC I made a small comparisation of those three most beloved programmes concerning stacking. As a matter of fact in Siril manual it is also stated that you should expect inferior results if you use scripts exactly for that reason, because it's automated. It offers advanced image calibration tools, such as dark frame subtraction, flat field correction, and bias correction to improve the quality of your final integration. 8 Comparison between the single image (top) (Sony RX10 ISO 6400) and the result of stacking 30 images (bottom). It DSS vs Siril vs ASTAP. ASTAP works natively on all platforms, and works well enough. Check out the downloads page. The Siril has DSS beat for stacking, so I'd recommend you check it out. 99. 14. I hope to be able compare both programms again DSS works directly with pretty much any image format on the planet. If you think that the SIRIL result is good compared to DSS, then I really don’t know what to say. But what I needed was a short, Also, I only use 2x drizzle in DSS. The green color will still appear, but working with its own stacks the color calibration is mostly on point, regardless of the source file formats as it just converts everything into fits anyways I've used Siril, PI, APP, DSS and Sequator and I can say for sure in my case, Siril is by far the fastest of all if them (APP easily the slowest). M81 & M82, taken on May, 2015. Stacking Images Using DeepSkyStacker or SiriL - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Hi: Yes, I am quite a newbie with this. Only problem is that my Altair 533 on my AT80EDT doesnt have the FOV to image it. 2 Beta, APP, and PI. In Siril, one can open the That's I'd call redundant work, to stack in DSS and then use Siril. There are settings in ASTAP in this regard, but from the limited playing I've Interesting topic. I tested this all out over the last few nights and got some great stacks from both filters, plus a Stacking: DSS stacks the aligned images on top of each other to create a final image that has less noise and better detail than any of the individual images. Background: I’m an experienced EAA’er but novice astrophotographer The few images I’ve processed have been made using DSS and PhotoShop I need/want PhotoShop, Hi Troy, thank you for your insights about Siril I'm happy with Siril for stacking, and usually don't run into problems. And new ones appeared. I cannot acces the Pixinsigth page as I use Siril for most stacking. I have just begun working with Siril as an alternative to DSS this past week, and am also liking what I am seeing so far. By kinglevel September 10, 2020 in Imaging - Image Processing, Help and Techniques. ASI Studio (Red) Vs. A roundness of 1 describes a perfectly round-shaped star while a roundness of 0. better known as DSS, is arguably one of the most widely used software to calibrate and stack astrophotography images. I haven't found anything I'm One to one comparison: Siril VS DSS - posted in Astronomy Software & Computers: I have just finished a comparison by using my own source files. No calibration. Dwarf II Tips: Get better stacking by converting Tif into Fits using Siril and after stacking in DeepSkyStacker to obtain a color stack with better quality. SiriL is a freeware, cross-platform, astrophotography package that will let you calibrate, stack, and develop Before that I used siril. 0rc1 is distributed for the 3 most common platforms (Windows, macOS, GNU / Linux). PixInsight When it comes to astrophotography, having the right software can make a world of difference. I used to use DSS, but got much better stacking results with Siril. If there are no further updates, support for later cameras As per my earlier comment, DSS is pretty automated and in my opinion it provides subtle inferior images. Has comet stacking feature but at the moment will not do both comet and star stack (like DSS - which occasionally doesn't succeed). 30 x matching darks. But of course, as Siril is a free software, you can build from the sources, available through the installation page. A this very moment I'm looking at the difference between the WBPP stack and DSS stack of the Cave Nebula subs I took last night. Now Id like to join the big leagues, so should I got for Startools or Pixinsight? Thanks. 30 x flats 30 x dark flats. In my area, I regularly get haze and high wispy clouds at night. HDD's are cheap, so I don't see that as an issue. Also, note that in my original post I suggested that that the problem was my mistake and/or ignorance. e. 4 nights over a week with no moon from my inner-suburb driveway. Hello all, I'm trying out these three softwares for stacking my files to see if I get better results with one or the other. 2. Yellow cast is totally normal as I use an OSC with L-pro filter and tends to give that cast untill I use whipe or in siril Background extraction. Plus, I can do background extraction before stacking. - Similar results. And here's M33 using the stacked image (not processed) from Siril but processed in Astrocooker: M33 - Stacked in Siril, Processed in Astrocooker. 3. 02, for what its worth I used to use DSS for stacking, but making it work on my Linux PC with WINE went from difficult (version 3 & 4) to impossible (version 5). 0 of Sirilic was released in June 2019. I can bring the stacked image into siril for the initial post processing. APP is the second slowest but reasonably fast. I tried several programs to remove the sky glow. For comparison here's the same data stacked in DSS, 2 versions processed slightly differently in PS. In versions of Siril prior to 1. Page 1 of 2 - SiriL, PI, APT, APP, and Startools, oh my! - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: There are too many choices and not enough obvious reasons to know which is best for me. Post by Carles » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:08 pm. 8. My system is no slouch. 1000x1000 crops, resized Look at these two images of M13, one stacked with DSS and one stacked with Siril (second one): See how the orange HD star has a halo around it from imprecise stacking on DSS, which doesn’t appear with Siril. I understand that they should be taken with cap on at the same temp, gain and exposure as normal flats. 5 defines a star twice as large along x-axis than along y-axis. But WBPP is much better at alignin I chose this name because it is the acronym of “Siril’s Interactive Companion” and in French, Sirilic has a consonance close to the Cyrillic word. If you I've personally had worst results when stacking Siril compared to DSS, plus I just find DSS much easier to use. Is there anything useful in Siril that is not in Pixinsite s-dss-vs-astap/ Also, another useful feature that siril has, over PI, are developers that are very proactive and helpful in addressing bug reports - Cyril, Cecil, and Adrian are doing an amazing DSS vs Sequator Question Okay so, I can guess this has probably been asked before here lol buut why does deep sky stacker seem to take so much longer to process my images than sequator? is it really worth that extra time?? just seems a little odd to me that sequator is so much quicker? surely there's a trade off in this? https://www Hi Troy, thank you for your insights about Siril I'm happy with Siril for stacking, and usually don't run into problems. I've stacked many images using Affinity, SiriL, PixInSight and APP, and really found very little difference between them. That's my only real gripe with DSS is that you can't make masters without stacking lights, but for freeware, I'm definitely not complaining. Lots of big-city skyglow plus the local (Sodium streetlight ~30 That should be plenty. Siril has added a great deal of features and functionality since I began using it, and I highly Page 1 of 4 - Startools or Pixinsight - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Ive been using free software - DSS, Siril, Gimp. Thanks in advance for any help! 1 Replies 32; Created 4 yr; Last Reply 4 yr; Top Posters In This Topic. Why? Story goes like this: I started my new hobby with 130SLT alt_az and ASI385MC. I have had an extensive education for the past month wanting to get back into astronomy and the imaging process. Frequently, the algorithm will detect DSS vs PixInsight for stacking - posted in Astronomy Software & Computers: I did stacking in DSS , however yesterday I downloaded PixInsight and I am wondering if I should redo stacking in the new software. I run on striped SSD array and Siril + Sirilic just flies, even with my lengthy multisession integrations. Anybody use ASTAP or Siril for image stacking? - posted in DSLR, Mirrorless & General-Purpose Digital Camera DSO Imaging: I have been using APP (Astro Pixel Processor https://www. Siril will automatically detect anything that looks like a star. Ha = 17 x 360s, Temp -10 deg C, Gain 200, Offset 50. clear sky at night). 4. 11. This seems to be enough to give me round instead of square stars with my redcat when zoomed in. I use mostly Siril for stacking, sometimes DSS for comparison. Both of these software options offer powerful features and tools, but which one is the rig For now, I'm still stacking my FITS in DeepSkyStacker (DSS) because it feels easier and that's what I'm used to, but I'll certainly try Siril's stacking as soon as I collect new FITS (i. Any tips or alternatives? Related Topics Astrophotography Photography Art Hobbies comment sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment erikwarm • Additional comment actions Siril has served me great Reply More posts you may like. Start to finish Rosette Page 1 of 2 - Stacking performance: PI vs. Gimp is best, in my opinion, from what I can see on my cell phone. Siril does stacking even faster than DSS. I haven't tried PI or APP, but for my use, Siril and PS suffice. aligns and stacks all the images. com ), In part because stacking large mosaics was one of its selling points. WO Z61, AstroTech field flattener, unmodified Canon 700D. Comparing to stack the same set of subs in DSS, PI and Siril, I found Siril to deliver the best results. DSS and ASTAP - fuzzier stars than others. Mosaic mode on DSS sucks. Just navigate to the home folder, and add four subfolders called 'lights', 'darks', 'biases' and 'flats', and run a script (blue button dropdown, and click). Siril runs faster on my computer and required less free disk space during stacking, so that was my main decision point between the two. Further processing I do in PI. 0 has no additional dependencies beyond requiring that Siril is compiled with libtiff support (this is the I have DSS procedures for both OSC and Mono data sets over 1 night or multiple nights if your interested Clear Skies Martin. For small stacks and mosaics APP works well, but it has terrible algorithm for Page 2 of 3 - Siril a better DSS alternative? - posted in DSLR, Mirrorless & General-Purpose Digital Camera DSO Imaging: The latest version is 3. r/telescopes • Moon close up Interestingly, during the alignment process it's flipped the image 180degree horizontally (compared to DSS) and I think colours have come out slightly better. 0 to stack and it's way better! It's a lot faster and can manage stack without calibration frame way better than Dss! Pixinsight for processing, and finishing touch in DSS VS Astro pixel - posted in Astronomy Software & Computers: Good night I open this thread because i am trying to stack with DSS the pictures taken of M31 but it is impossible, nothing appear. DSS incorporates whatever is the "current" full Hi, i compare the stacking time Siril vs. worked on my drizzled images to remove stars without leaving giant rings and the photometric color calibration in SIRIL never seemed to be able to plate solve even with selecting the sampling for drizzling Siril then compares the star colours in thecaptured image with those in the star catalogue and adjust the colour balanceto correct that in the image. M42 dslr processed with StarTools vs Siril - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Tis the season for beginners to post their M42 pics In this case, 219x60-sec images. The scripts will fail if the folders aren't labeled as such. For DSS and ASTAP I follow the recomended settings as per the Manual / website. Siril is an open-source software for stacking and processing astronomical images. Woohoo! So I decided to image M31 to participate in this months challenge. Everything about Pixinsight is deliberate Page 2 of 2 - A simple APP vs Pixinsight comparison for beginners - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Great discussion, I’ve recently been using all four of the major stackers available to me to compare: DSS, SIRIL 1. In my standard workflow I use Siril to do debayering, registration and stacking. For those who are experienced in image processing here, do you use PI for stacking, or stack elsewhere and then go to PI, or something similar? I'm currently using Siril and Photoshop. It's still great software. Remove ads . But I'm curious if you're using Siril's scripts to stack or if I briefly used DSS to stack and Siril for everything else because DSS seemed easier. Back when I could use I use deepskystacker to stack then move it to SiriL do a autostretch then a color calibration and background extraction which removes gradients/light pollution and move it to gimp stretch it do a S curve and some other adjustments and im done :) tekn0lust • They are both fantastic. DSS came out as no 3. OSCs and really only began using calibration frames last year. Two popular choices in the astrophotography community are Siril and PixInsight. 3 mouse clicks. Understanding “Dark Flats” - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Trying to get a better grip on calibration files and want to understand “Dark Flats” and how they work. - Siril is very fast. Post-processing: DSS allows for some basic post-processing of the stacked image. Clearly a huge difference in post Stacking Rossette In DSS (Yellowish) vs. 5 released on November 22, 2024. Then I moved to Pixinsight, and got on with it a lot better than I expected. Home / Forum / Astrophotography Technical Forums / [Deep Sky] Processing techniques/ Siril vs Deep Sky Stacking [Deep Sky] Processing techniques · Dennis Spender · · 12 · 666 · 0 DSS Results vs Sequator. My question concerns DeepSkyStacker and SiriL. A python script was available and covered here in a previous tutorial (now deleted), but it involved multiple additional dependencies, whereas the new integrated interface in 1. if i use the astro pixel, this software stack correctly, the problem, astro pixel is a test version and the final version is very expensive Please could somebody tell me if Page 1 of 2 - Mosaics with SiriL? - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: After almost three months straight of cloudy skies, I had clear skies and almost-new moon last night. I totally get your remark about the instructions! If it is substantially better than DSS however, I would appreciate hearing in what ways it is better. My particular interest is in Siril's capacity to apply background extraction from individual subs before stacking, as I image in a very Page 1 of 2 - Pixinsight vs DSS - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Pixinsight pros: -Stack, process, and post process all in one(?) -Very powerful and professional -Many tools, including star reduction(?) -Very Having been a user of DSS for several years, I've recently had a look at the stacking feature in ASTAP. 20 beta 2) che fra le altre cose integra la possibilità di usare Starnet++ come plugin per Hello all. Here is a further look at the topic comparing the results of stacking the same data with 6 programs. Magic! [Note: the computer must have access to theinternet to access the star catalogue. Ill be processing in PixInsight afterwards. In fact, DSS is still king - its interface is the easiest and fastest to use, its speed of stacking is good, and it makes almost as good stacks as Siril. Then I discovered Sirilic, which is a script building tool that greatly simplifies stacking in I've tried all 3 and found DSS to work the best. And after many exchanges on the Webastro forum and many improvements, version 1. But no problem, NINA can **Stacking in DSS vs Stacking in Siril** Ciao, ho appena messo le mani sulla nuova versione di Siril (1. Name each appropriate folder as 'darks', 'flats', 'biases', 'lights'. 3 mm rather than 1800 mm However, I think that if you look at the images I posted, SIRIL does a bad job of stacking my frames, while DSS and APP do vastly better. 5 November 22, 2024 For programs like DSS and Siril and even PixInsight, the code to manage that Raw Decoding is libRAW - which a non-profit group works to maintain and releases a few updates to their libRAW. ISO 1600, 280S, 49 frames. 0 Starnet++ functionality was not integrated. Pixinsigth vs Siril - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: I have seen many references saying that Pixinsigth is a fantastic software for Astrophotography and a need for some. I would still argue proper calibration frames will improve an image- did you try siril stacking with calibration files? I think there is a lot of testing you can do to try and squeeze out the best image possible. If you find Siril too bad (and I hate script and CLI based software) then Sirilic gets round some of the problems, although it spends ages copying files The thing I like about Affinity is the nice balance it strikes between power and ease-of-use. That is to say strecth and export a video. Also like mentioned is good in mosaics. Siril 1. DSS is much simpler to use 😂😂😂 Not much difference between stacking in DSS/APP but APP handles better background gradients. Interesting results. Hi Guys, I’m slowly in the process of moving from DSS + the GIMP to Siril + less GIMP. Posted September 11, 2020. Click home icon, open the folder containing the folders above Step 2. DSS mostly introduces more inexplicable problems than doing its work in my experience. Source Code. Astrophotography Software Showdown: Siril vs. astropixelprocessor. - Siril can use master correction files created by APP. Tell me: what are the processes or practices that make pi better than siril? I know the basics, but want to learn the details of Siril is so incomprehensible and counterintuitive to me that I stopped trying. Once superstacking is completed, you can open superstack folder in Siril, and proceed with this new sequence exactly as described in the animation section. Here is a comparison of the same DSS-stacked TIFF, developed in Affinity Photo (using curve adjustments) and in Siril + Affinity Photo : Stacking in DSS and Processing in SIRIL - best file format to use? - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: I am just getting started in processing and I think I have figured out Deep Sky Stacker well enough that I am happy with the stacking results. This animation below is the same as shown above, but with superstacking by 3 the original data. Finally the 4th was a combination of Gimp and Siril SeeStar S50 Google Image Enhance Gimp Gimp + Siril. After using GraXpert on both, the DSS stack has a better balance. This tutorial explains step-by-step how to process raw deep-sky images using, at first, the automatic processing capabilities of Siril scripts up to the stacking of the images, then the image improvement features of Siril to produce a final image for Web publication for example. DSS tends to do a better job at eliminating satellite trails than ASTAP. Works much better than afterwards. New Siril Integration #. The im Pixinsite vs Siril - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: I own a copy of Pixinsite. Background noise, Sequator vs DSS for Stacking - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Hello fellow space junkies, I havent been able to find an equivalent in DSS to Sequators Accumulation stacking method. Fortunately I discovered, that SIRIL was able to eat everything I feed to him and gave me a proper stack. 1 Seelive. Still haven't found anything better than it for mosaics. Short 1 Minute Tutorials (DSS, Siril, Sequator) - posted in Astronomy Software & Computers: Hey everyone, I remember when I started out the exciting journey of astrophotography, the learning curve was quite steep and it can be quite challenging to begin. I took around 125 subs of M3, stacked a Siril is much more hands on than DSS and doesn't automate the process, so I need to know exactly what to do. Are you post processing the images or just adjusting the images using the Download SIRIL version 1. He agreed with dm60062003 that ASTAP gave a better looking stack, at least for his test photos, but he downgraded ASTAP a little vs. Good luck. As I have standardised on exposure time (reuse Page 2 of 2 - Stacking: APP vs Siril vs PI vs DSS vs ASTAP - posted in Experienced Deep Sky Imaging: My $. I am trying to use SIRIL to process my images after stacking in DSS and am trying to figure out the best file format to It's 10 times slower than Siril and it produces similar or worse quality stacks. Step 0. Share No idea but worth giving Siril a go see how that compares . SiriL because of Siril + Sirilic, Startools, Photoshop, Topaz (DeNoise, Gigapixel & Sharpen) Reply reply bizbizq • I switched from Dss to siril 2. I seem to flip backwards and forwards, gradually staying longer and longer with Siril. PI/Siril/DSS/? - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Im learning PI (Thanks Lazy Geek!!) and PI doesnt seem to use my GPU for stacking. APP was not very fast (compared to Siril) but improved in latest beta. Top. PI is the slowest. 3. 1, the current stable version in February 2021 (download ). (Yes, I know PI can also stack, though I dont specifically know how to do it yet, and I know DSS fairly well) Thanks! As the region of sky lay between ~44 and 80 degrees elevation, it is reasonable to assume that the background sky glow will only change slowly across the field. . The registration algorithm between the two isn't even close. (Some I've played with in Python, and for mosaics, I'll fire up DSS. Siril has DSS beat for stacking, so I'd recommend you check it out. The "s" on the end is important for the scripts to work. PixInsight is where I wouldn't say DSS better at all. Where the same stack takes around 30 minutes (or less?) in Siril. Step 1. But what about filters, my flats are taken with different exposures depending on filter choice. For a quick and easy method, Google Image Enhanced did a great job. then In this video I will go over my current workflow for Deep Sky Object processing using Siril, Starnet++, DeepSkyStacker and Photoshop. Siril just works better and is more optimized. His tl;dr is: PI > SiriL and ASTAP > DSS > AP and APP > Sequator > RegiStar. I want to be able to take many images from my dslr, but instead of The roundness of a star is defined as the ratio between its FWHM along y-axis and x-axis. The only feature I'd like to see in Affinity is more control over image selection. Siril is a free, open-source software designed specifically for astrophotography enthusiasts. The two images were both stacked using the same lights, darks, flats and dark flats. I use Google quite often since its editor has some excellent features. What DSS did on a layer, Sirilic It doesn't do multi session stacking properly, unlike DSS and it is mind numbingly slow (over an hour to process an image that DSS can handle in 5 minutes) but the results otherwise are OK. 0. The workfow is very differnt (DSS is for me simple too use), Siril stacks the same Picture in ~50% less time then DSS. I spent hours watching YouTube tutorials on how to do stuff. I'm about ready to go back to DSS for stacking for everything. Sequator is pretty good to start off with but wasn't aligning perfectly on my images, hence the switch to DSS. Anyone using ASIAir and Siril - Question on file format (fit vs raw) - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Dear CloudyNighters, While I am slowly making progress with understanding my gear (largely because of the help from this awesome forum) there is still plenty of way to go on the learning curve. For pure speed and quality of stacks, Siril cannot be beat though. And right now I still don't get better result with pi to when processing the same data with siril. Siril makes it’s easy to throw out the bad frames, I usually throw out 20-25% based on size and roundness. ) Then I tend to use Gimp for adjusting some of it, or some of the other fits tools and things like ImageJ. DSS output file format (fits vs tiff) - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Im using DSS to stack and was just curious if there is a benefit to using one file output format over the other. Whilst DSS is perfectly serviceable and fit for purpose, not much has changed under the hood for years. It includes two free programs, Siril and Images Plus, a third, either ‘rented or purchased’ program, Astro Pixel Processor and the updated I'm trying out these three softwares for stacking my files to see if I get better results with one or the other. Siril is a free image stacking and processing software with advanced features. Siril - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Can anyone explain why stacking in Pixinsight takes so long relative to other products? When comparing PI WBPP to Siril, about 400 frames, PI takes about 4 hours on my system. Therefore, stacking in PI takes a LOT longer vs Siril. Whatever parameters I would try in PI, Siril gave superior stacks in terms of details vs noise. Seelive. FWIW, I used to have issues with calibration frames until I switched to Siril and stated doing the masters individually. However, some people told me that 3. The The second image is a manual stack of the FITS from the SeeStar and post-processing using Chris Gray's Siril Tutorial on YouTube: M33 - Processed in Siril. It was made with version 0. Pretty soon it became clear, that getting quality data with this Page 1 of 2 - Testing stacking quality of SIRIL vs PixInsight vs Astro Pixel Processor - posted in Experienced Deep Sky Imaging: Has anyone done rigorous testing of the stacking quality of the various options such as Pixinsight (PI), Astro Pixel Processor (APP), and SIRIL? Im only talking stacking here, not post processing. That said, I have used Siril since I began our hobby. 6 # Effect of superstacking 3 and 5 frames. The Z7ii has been out for a few years, so it is surely covered by a modern libRAW version. Recent issue that got me scratching my head is this: ASIAir Siril 1. macOS Intel macOS Apple Silicon macOS. DSS, but its not easy. This was around the time after D810A was announced. There is only a small amount of data (about 30 mins) on M81 at the heart with M82 and NGC 3077 off to upper sides. Will be great to hear peoples thoughts on my DSS vs Siril versions of this image. Just a very brief overview of a comparison I did for no other reason than I had a few minutes to kill. ] First application – Siril calculates the precise telescope focal length – 1807. The images are messy but these are purely stacks including usual cal Aligning but NOT Stacking 3 Seperate Images in DSS or SIRILhow can this be so hard?!? - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: Hi All, Ive been using a single L-eXtreme filter for HA+OIII, but recently got a Askar D2 Filter to capture OIII and SII with my one OSC camera. I find the sheer vastness of it's available processes gives so much fine control over every facet of the image and l really like that, but it is a slow procedure to complete an image - I can spend The thing I like about Affinity is the nice balance it strikes between power and ease-of-use. And for Siril just guessed. Siril's scripts expect to see the folders labeled lights, darks, biases, and flats. It seems that the stack produced by Siril shows a bit more detail than the DSS result. Members; 326 482 Posted September 11, 2020. Siril, on the other hand really has become a kind of PI "Lite" in a remarkably short space of time. I use siril, dss and sequator. dll every year. Page 1 of 2 - Awkward Stacking Result - posted in Beginning Deep Sky Imaging: As my battle with Siril continues, I see really weird things happened, cannot explain why. bgtmvp aqoo kuozu kzld mkfrhb aryu rtvgbd bumff ogom abee